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Performance Information

1965 AMC Rambler Marlin aka "Barnacle Bill" (pictures) Performance  Information For Gearheads and Thinkers Cutaway View of V8 Engines now featuring Chevrolet vs AMC V8 +etc AMC V8 Oiling System Modifications

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For many years now I have seen other engines swapped into AMC cars. My only explanation for this is a lack of good information. Other enthusiasts consider AMC cars to "muts"; not thoroughbreds, but GM and Ford used Borg Warner transmissions also. (I don't know the details, but apparently Ford purchased the rights to manufacture the BW M8-12 auto tranny around '67, and making changes to the design they named it "FMX". Not absolutely sure, but I think this is why AMC went to Chrysler automatics in '72; not to surrender to Ford's manufacturing tyranny. Keep in mind, it can be proved sub-entities of Ford (not actually FMC, but underling cronies) did fabricate disinformation to put the smaller makes out of business; the Studebaker camp has actual documentation of that sad dastardly venture. But I like Ford products; the '71 429 Ram Air Mustang Mach 1 is my favorite Ford (I know they made one because I drove an original one back in the mid seventies!) It slapps me silly to see a Chevrolet engine in an AMX; a car that -smashed- over one hundred speed records with it's very own AMC V8. The Metropolitan also; it's Austin Motor Co. (AMC!) engine is truly a legend. Raced for decades in MG's and Austin Minis, tons of high performance parts are available for it, but Mets get butchered anyway. (see a Metropolitan I rebuilt for street duty here) How about putting a Ford Windsor engine into a Chevy Nova; joke right? Only for ignorance AMC cars are made into Frankensteins. These are historical cars with historical engines that should be respected as such, but AMC cars are not, for lack of good information. I aim to dispel this confusion about AMC products in general. Just because there are no dirt cheap chrome valve cover and air filter dress up kits, no specific aluminum intakes avaliable retail, and no sloppy made, ill fitting, wrong size tubing, pre-made steel tube headers for sale in Car Craft and Hot Rod Magazine advertisements, that does not mean no speed parts are available for the Rambler V8!

"SPEED PARTS" for the Rambler V8 & AMC inline six

Rambler 327 V8 pistons have roughly 1/4" more piston pin height than Chevrolet small block 327, but same bore size. Piston temperatures vary greatly from the piston dome/face down to the tips of the "skirts". For this reason the "extra" piston pin height found in the Rambler V8, and the divorced skirt piston design, is to reduce the temperature of the piston pin for longevity. However, the reduced piston pin height found in Chevrolet's 327 has not proved to be a durability issue. Most crank shops can build up the rod journals 1/4" with welds to achieve the additional 1/2' stroke in a Rambler V8, then use Chevy 327 forged aluminum pistons. See link above to AM Racing for pistons. This will yeild about 382 cid. (Crank journal welding is normally done when an engine "spins a bearing", to resurface the rod journal.) See also "418 CID Rambler V8" http://wps.com/AMC/Rambler-327/418-cid%20v8.htm Performance American Style is now offering "racer" type aluminum connecting rods for the Rambler V8 engine. A shorter rod could adapt an even longer stroke... . Crankshaft and rod specs/availability see Standard Crankshaft
 
With only minor alterations needed to adapt Chevrolet 327 pistons, custom piston makers such as Wiseco should have no problem with a Rambler 327 V8 application. 

Genuine thanks to these Rambler enthusiasts for posting all this good information. However me no recommendo the Rambler V8 for turbocharging because I have not yet found suitable high performance head bolts, but that doesn't mean an aftermarket bolt maker can't make a set. I dissagree that the Rambler V8 is a good engine for turbocharging because it is a "thick wall" casting; it is not. Rather the "extra" weight compared to the AMC V8 is easy seen in the "deep skirt" crankshaft gallery "X" bracing, the cast iron timing chain cover and water outlet manifold, and various aspects of the the rear of the engine block -the bolt pattern bracing and general extension. As explained in the technical article, the extra bracing is for cancelling slight vibrations in the engine especially at certain points in the power band, but also for a long lasting union to the transmission's input assembly. NEVERTHELESS... there is a book on how to do it. Both Chrysler's famous Hemi V8 and Ford's legendary FE V8 engine had main bearing flex problems that had to be solved after the initial design and tooling processes.

Rambler V8 has same bore spacing as AMC V8, and has nearly same head bolt pattern, but noticeably uses two bolts to straddle the center exhaust outlet instead. It is very plausible that certain aftermarket aluminum (or other material) AMC V8 heads could be drilled for the Rambler V8 head bolt pattern, such as these heads shown by AM Racing, which apparently use the big block Mopar wedge exhaust port pattern... (FBS AMC V8 head casting)

For the question of roller rockers, certain years AMC made their inline six which has a very similar Nash style shaft mounted rocker system, and the Austin inline four and six cylinder may be a source for adaptable high performance roller type rockers...

This gasket manufacturer seems like they are true Rambler V8 enthusiasts judging by their careful and complete quality gasket sets. When I ordered my set fromt them, they included two different sets of valve stem seals; the soft, rubbery umbrella type (black) & the hard, tan colored, umbrella seals. The head gaskets were a brass colored (yellow/gold color) metal shim type, having the stamped ridges to make an "o-ring" type seal around each opening. The rear main bearing seal in my set was a modern composition packing (not hemp/rope!), trim to fit, easy to install and worked well. They included an exhaust manifold gasket set, but neither AMC V8 requires those for having a precision machined fit, engineered for thermal expansion, whereas gaskets there would create an undesireable possibility for blown gaskets and exhaust manifold leaks -but they could be used to seal a custom set of headers. All of the gaskets in the Rambler V8 engine gasket set were correctly cut, of the right type material, fit right, and sealed well. As a smaller gasket making company in competition with huge multi-division corporations, they have my recommendation. -More power to 'em!

A roller cam for the Rambler V8? Elgin offers to 'weld up' excessivly worn cams so there is a remote possibility... making use of Ramber V8/AMC V8 same size lifters... Do you feel teased anyway? AMC supplied all Rambler V8s with same cam specs. While the 250 cid version used solid lifters having adjustable rockers, the cam's lobe design was carefully engineered for longevity, making sure the valvetrain components operate very smoothly with no excessive scrubbing. Unlike the highly touted Chevy small block V8 that was made with square shouldered (non rotating) valve spring retainers and a bonnet over the valve spring for oil control, AMC employed positive rotating valves using umbrella type valve stem seals. Rambler V8 valves and lifters are the same size and type as the later model AMC 304 V8, so it's logical to expect a high performance/rpm valve spring kit and performance type anti pump lifters are already available at any hi po part dealer. For the performance enthusiast, the cam should be optimized for bore and stroke changes. The camshaft regrind service business of the enthusiast's choice should be able to overcome any falsely perceived valvetrain mystery and -should- require an exhaustive list of scientifically pertinent specifications in order to supply the type of reground performance cam the client desires. Don't just take my word on this subject; there is good information out there about the technical aspects of camshaft and valvetrain science for anyone to study and make their own decisions. One thing for sure is the Rambler V8 is a good base to build power into, easier than say a Buick "Nailhead" V8; to overcome the restrictive ports and unusually small valves (hence the nickname hinting at the small valve sizes) racers used to have those cams done transposed in order to reverse flow the heads, supercharging the exhaust ports and using the intake ports for the exhaust outlets!

The Rambler V8 uses the same valves as the later '73 up AMC 304 V8. These are the positive rotating type AMC went back to for use with low lead and unleaded fuel. (AMC went to non-rotating type '66 290, '67 to '72 all V8 -"Chevy style" valve locks) Installing the positive rotating valves from a '73 AMC 360, have the cylinder head shop put in hardened seats to the larger size. This is not an exotic job for a typical head shop. Have a shop blend the throat to the larger seats, or do it yourself with grinding bits chucked in a drill. I always lapp my valves using a suction cup attachment in a drill with coarse and fine lapping compounds. The valve seats should be done after any pocket porting or blending... NAPA Auto Parts has these recommended oversized valves at; intake valve -.001" shorter .3719" stem diameter -have bronze guide installed, exhaust valve -will need to be shortened to 4.892" length, .3721 stem diameter -have bronze guide installed (consult your machinist)

I've had good sucess with teflon seals that fit securely on the valve guide stem. The cylinder head shop one choses should be able to provide better detail and selection than I provided here, mainly for inspirational purposes only; to show that many of the parts to hop up a Rambler V8 are already out there...

NAPA lists the same part numbers for AMC V8 and Rambler V8 camshaft timing chain and crank sprocket; -it could be that the Rambler camshaft sprocket is different for it's lubrication circuit, then the only difference is the drilled camshaft sprocket hub for the oiling port -see WPS Rambler V8/"the New AMC V8" & TSM for details of the fuel pump ecentric oiling circuit... With a critical examination, I expect a competent machinist could convert the AMC V8 cam sprocket to Rambler V8 specs... Rambler V8 camshaft has tiny hole drilled to get oil to drilled hole in camshaft sprocket hub for lubricating the ecentric... the reason for the double roller cam chain set is to provide more strength for higher performance valve spring values and to reduce internal friction with rollers instead of plain teeth/notches rubbing together.

Taken off the car, the Marlin's automatic transmissions are among the easiest to rebuild. The labor involved to swing away torque tube drive system is more difficult than an open driveshaft car. Please contact me about any pre '72 AMC Borg Warner automatic transmission problems. I can do your old BW trans service confidently, for performance, and you can save about $1500! -no lie- The big shops must have a lot of overhead, but I'm probably not alone in cringing to tell my transmission shop disaster experiences. 

I've been looking for years on end to find a source for bronze clutches, for the BW M 8/12s. Of all things, I found one bronze clutch set inside the trans of a '66 Marlin sitting in a junkyard -the car hadn't been run for at least twenty years. Only recently I've found this trans part store; they show -bronze- clutches for a Ford "medium case" (apparently Ford jargon for pre-FMX Ford-O-Matic) One would need to make a comparison to see if this bronze plate interchages with an AMC M 8/12. In all likelihood, it should fit. I don't know for sure, so you're on your own. Please let me know if they do. 

I Emailed Borg Warner... about two years ago with several questions 1) did BW create Ford-O-Matic (if so, they should say so at their corporate website), or just make it for Ford? 2)When did Ford obtain right of ownership to manufacture FMX/what type of business deal 3) Where can I get bronze clutches for BW M 8/12?          -No Answer-

Come to find out, Studebaker co-designed their own automatic transmission with Detroit Gear about 1950. It's called "DG-200" or "DG-250". Apparently this was a real four speed automatic, with a lock up torque converter? (Packard claimed their "Ultramatic" auto trans was a four speed with lock up, but it was really a two speed w lock up having a low and high range "splitter"... as far as I can tell)  

So you think old Ramblers are boring? Take that fat wallet full of credit cards here! The AMC V8 is a near bolt in swap for the Rambler V8. Any '67-'72 AMC V8 automatic bellhousing is your adapter. For $12,000 + price of Grandma's Rambler Classic, one could have a real hot rod by golly.

Lakewood makes a stamped steel bellhousing to do the same swap -AMC V8 to variety of transmissions. 

"Headers By Ed " makes header parts for the Rambler V8; everything from premade flanges to three into one collectors. Advice how to do Rambler V8 headers. Moreover, since the Rambler V8 employs a free standing intake manifold above it's covered lifter valley (surprise under valley cover is baffle to direct fresh oil poured in, and separate "block hugger" lifter valley cover to direct bulk of top oil to drain down in rear of block above rear main and oil pump. Aside from intake manifold temperature control the seperation maintains that no oil is scalded from splattering upon the cross over exhaust heat riser, thus extending the life span of the engine oil)... easier than doing the headers, would be to make a steel tube intake (again, racers in the sixties used to do that) From my studies, I calculate that 1 1/2" x 13" tubes for each intake port would result to 17 to 18" intake runners (4 1/2 long ports in head). This should be about optimal for mid range torque. (having the steel tube intake -or valve covers- chromed will look great, but under the hood black paint releases heat better -one reason why eventually AMC went to black engine paint. In raw sunlight, white, silver or chrome is better to reflect/keep heat out) Apparently the runner extensions should tie into a common plenum about 1 1/2 the size of one cylinder's displacement. One of my dreams is to make a steel tube tunnel ram like this. I would make the common plenum about one cylinder's displacement and to have a bolt on cover plate to add spacers for more volume and to have options for a variety of carburetor selections... -the dream is to fabricate a three twos ("six pack") intake and a seven tube header, to make a Rambler 3-2-7 (the Rambler V8's have siamese center exhaust ports, for three tubes on each side -then a cross over tube near the collectors makes seven tubes) Anyway, don't assume that since there is no bolt on aftermarket aluminum intake or ready made exhaust headers that this engine has no potential! As far as the Rambler V8 goes, you are only limited by your own potential to think and do for yourself. If one has no training to work with metals, ask around to find a good metal fab shop; they'd probably enjoy doing the job for the sake of interesting variety.

Here are pictures of a Rambler V8 sporting three two barrel carbs. The intake is a standard Rambler V8 two barrel type but has been modified to add two more carbs. This is done by fabricating the additional carb bases and drilling/cutting/tapping the holes to mount the new carbs... the same can be done on an AMC six intake... don't quote me on it, but I have heard say that even plywood carb bases (act as thermal barriers) and silicone glue will do -just drill the holes, tap the bolt holes & figure out how to do the linkage (hmm, paleface need brainpower too!)

Thank you Planet Houston AMX!

See also http://www.jeepstrokers.com/forum/ ...but always remember to put on your information filter to discern inaccuracies, as with reading the sayings of 'contributors' on other forums which are sometimes utterly ridiculous! -such as putting pipe cleaners in your pushrods to limit oil flow... (I can easily visualize how that would work in reality with the rocker arms nibbling off a bit of the pipe cleaner poppiing out of the pushrod every cycle!) 

Thank you Clifford Performance!
Once upon a time, most muffler shops did not have equipment to bend larger tube exhaust pipe systems. Adding a second exhaust pipe was a way to increase exhaust flow. This is why a greater majority of people believe they must "dual out" the exhaust. But this seemingly universal compulsion ignores the addition of extra weight; now the weight of two exhaust pipes, moreover, historical allusion to time when most people did not consider extra weigh to be a problem because gas was so cheap. (?) But when it comes to performance, HORSEPOWER TO WEIGHT RATIO is a major factor. And the Classic/Marlin (and Ambassador) torque tube drive system does not lend itself easily to a dual pipe system, so... In my opinion... Go with a larger diameter single tube exhaust system. Sure, a dual outlet muffler in the stock location would be fine... and the tail pipes could be easily routed to exit under the rear bumper (longer tubing though, adding a tad more weight). I've seen a few unusually daring (?) Rambler Classic/Marlin enthusiasts install dual systems, but they typically are forced to either add booster springs on the shocks or "heat and beat" the panhard rod to ...reduce... unwanted knocking and banging noises from suspension interference making contact with the custom bent exhaust tubing. (pain in the rear, literally) Just make sure the muffler shop of your choice does a righteous job of making the two into one union just rearward of the trans crossmember a high flow connection; I have seen sloppy jobs that ran the passenger side exhaust pipe to a puny hole cut in the driver side pipe, then welded on, all looks well to the ignorant eye. (like a custom heat valve for the intake crossover that stays custom-stuck-shut!)
Even among overly prudent Rambler owners it is generally agreed that the addition of a larger 4bbl carburetor is among the first few modifications that SHOULD be made to increase the power of the Rambler V8. While the traditional formula for CFM rating is engine displacement X 2, a high performance 600cfm carb would be a true "breath of fresh air", replacing the stock puny Holley. Again, the horsepower to weight ratio rule points to using the Edlebrock carb, as does the knowledge of it's better metering systems and it's ease of tuning. Holley 4bbls are heavy (not just heavier) and more difficult to tune, having to learn a certain form of dexterous contortion in order to put the accelerator pump float bowls on correctly... none of that on the Edlebrock (Carter design), no gass spilled all over the engine, no blown out power valve to mysteriously leak down the carb into the intake tract, none of that. I recommend the 600cfm Edlebrock type four barrel for the number one performance modification to make on a Rambler 327 V8.